Shawn Coss grew up loving cartoons, but never dreamed it could become his full-time job. He grew up in a time and place where art wasn’t considered a viable career.
His dad told him he should get a “real job” instead of pursuing his dreams. The thought was, you could only be a professional artist if you went to an art institute, or learned at Disney. Like most people who grow up in difficult financial situations, Shawn’s dad didn’t want Shawn to grow up with the same hardships he had to go through.
Shawn hit his first break when he met Kris Wilson of Cyanhide and Happiness through MySpace. Kris liked Shawn’s work so much, that he invited him to work on the C&H team.
Cyanide and Happiness provided Shawn enough financial stability to start his own clothing company, Any Means Necessary. One of the clothing company’s campaigns, Inktober, brought an influx of fans and attention.
This brings Shawn to a an exciting but difficult crossroads. Should he go all-in on his company or keep it as a side hustle.
In this episode, Shawn talks about why there’s no formula for becoming a popular artist, defining success on your own terms, and why running an art business is such hard work, among many other things.
Here are three things you can learn from Shawn:
There’s No Secret Formula For Becoming Popular
When we see other artists living out their dreams, we often wonder how they achieved success. We want to know exactly what they did so we can copy their path.
The problem is, there is no secret formula for becoming a popular artist. There’s no shortcut for gaining raving fans. Sometimes all it takes is a little luck. Here’s how Shawn explains his break in the art world.
“When people ask me ‘How did I do it?’ I always tell them ‘Look, I was just super lucky.’ I’ve been gifted this ability to draw well enough to where other people, large masses, appreciate it, but the chances of someone like Kris Wilson, someone of his caliber, having a company that popular, finding me, was just a needle in a haystack. He could have messaged anyone else he wanted… but at that moment he messaged me. And that kind of changed my life.”
One thing you can do to keep your sanity is, stop chasing the idea of being a popular artist. Popularity comes when people appreciate your art. It’s not something you can manufacture.
“I’ll have other artists message me, and be like ‘How do I become a popular artist?’ Well that’s your first mistake, because you’re trying to be a popular artist. I never pursued the popular art, I just did artwork and unfortunately, not everyone gets to do it.”
Define Success on Your Own Terms
Success is such a subjective thing. My version of success is different from yours, which is why it’s so hard for artists to define what success means.
We all think that once we “make it”, everything will get easier. But as Shawn explains, there’s no such thing as making it. There’s only re-defining your goals.
“There is no making it as an artist. You make it to a point, but there’s always another point. There’s always a next level to get to or achieve to.”
One of the problems many of us encounter as artists is the ups and downs of being a creative. One day everything is going great and everyone loves your work. The next day there’s radio silence.
That’s the problem with riding the wave of social media success. We have no control over who sees our posts. We are at the whims of Facebook, Instagram, Pinterest and Twitter.
“It’s definitely a weird emotional ride because some days you’re riding cloud nine and everything’s awesome, and then maybe in a week or two, there’s nothing happening. You’re not getting the accolades that you’re used to and I feel like social media has a lot to blame on this because I feel we are programmed in a way… to chase these likes and these shares and all these accolades on social media that really have no weight to anything.”
Social media provides that jolt of endorphins we all crave. But what do these likes and hearts really mean? When it comes to our success as artists, they feel great, but they don’t really mean anything. They don’t help our businesses. They don’t build our fan base. They are just vanity metrics.
We need to stop chasing the shallow feeling of success social media provides us. We need to redefine our goals based on tangible success instead of our social media stats.
“How do I get that, how do I chase that back? I feel like that’s been a huge issue. That happiness we get, a lot of it is being fueled by social media, and a lot of these new artists are wanting that notoriety on social media, but it’s such a shallow feeling.”
Running an Art Business Takes Hard Work
Many of us fantasize about growing our art hobby into a business, but there’s a lot that goes into making a business work. You are going to face hardships and low moments. So the best way to deal with it is to grow a thick skin.
“Grow a thick f*cking skin. I think that’s a good one because there’s going to be a lot of down times, a lot of hardships you’re going to go through. I thought there were a lot more downs than there were ups initially and that weeds out a lot of people. And then giving yourself time to figure out ‘How long will I pursue this before I say, okay, this isn’t going to happen,” and I think being honest with yourself is one of the hardest things to do.”
At some point in our journeys we will question whether or not we should continue pursuing art as a career. The reality is, not everyone can make it as an artist. Not everyone is going to find success. Sometimes we have to be brutally honest with ourselves.
“You just have to say ‘Do I really want to keep pursuing this to make it successful, or in reality, is this going to be successful? Maybe it’s not going to be successful, maybe it’s not going to.’ And maybe I’m wrong to say that as an artist who is successful, but again, not everyone is going to be successful. That’s the reality of it. Otherwise we’d all be rich. We’d all be doing it. and some people can do it, and some people can’t.”
Running a sustainable art business takes a lot of work. It’s not for everyone. Don’t think just because you are doing what you love that everything will go smoothly. Be prepared to put in the work.
“It’s not a popular thing because I don’t think a lot of artists like to discourage other artists, but it’s a hard thing. It’s a lot of work. I tell artists I work more doing this than I’ve ever worked any nine to five job. I’m working day in and day out… and it doesn’t bother me but it’s definitely not for the weak who want to draw a picture once every couple of weeks and sit on their laurels.”
If you fantasize about resting on your laurels as an artist, you might want to reconsider your path. Just because you make art for a living doesn’t mean you get to just create for a few hours and call it a day. There’s a business involved too, and running a business takes hard work.
“People think as an artist I draw a piece of art and I just get to hang out all day. I’m working so much all the time… There’s a lot of work involved… No, there’s a business in there too. I think that’s where you get that separation of people who get it and people who don’t. They see the fantasy of it and then you get people who actually understand that’s there’s actually hard work involved.”
Shownotes
- about Shawn
- started professional work as an artist by talking to Kris Wilson of Cyanide and Happiness on Myspace
- wanted to do cartoons growing up, but didn’t pursue it
- dad told him to get a “real job”
- used to draw stick figure comics as a kid with his friend
- un-PC jokes
- obsessed with Sonic the Hedgehog
- drew his own Sonic levels
- middle/high school – dropped art and got into music
- was always drawing in school
- skipped class and hung out in art room
- back then, being a professional artist wasn’t considered a thing you could do
- you had to go to art institute or Disney to learn
- idea of art school for his family was not even a question
- dad didn’t want him to experience same hardship as his family
- worked many hours to make ends meet
- not everyone can make it as an artist
- similar to being a professional athlete
- success is subjective
13:09 “When people ask me ‘How did I do it?’ I always tell them ‘Look, I was just super lucky.’ I’ve been gifted this ability to draw well enough to where other people, large masses, appreciate it, but the chances of someone like Kris Wilson, someone of his caliber, having a company that popular, finding me, was just a needle in a haystack. He could have messaged anyone else he wanted… but at that moment he messaged me. And that kind of changed my life.”
13:47 “I’ll have other artists message me, and be like ‘How do I become a popular artist?’ Well that’s your first mistake, because you’re trying to be a popular artist. I never pursued the popular art, I just did artwork and unfortunately, not everyone gets to do it.”
- how his idea of success has changed
- with clothing line – being able to not answer to someone else
- being able to support himself and his family
- being an artist is like being a junkie
- you try to achieve new highs
- less than a quarter of his followers on social media interact with his posts
- moment in time someone likes you versus people who really like you
- chasing the good feeling of social media numbers
17:38 “There is no making it as an artist. You make it to a point, but there’s always another point. There’s always a next level to get to or achieve to.”
18:22 “It’s definitely a weird emotional ride because some days you’re riding cloud nine and everything’s awesome, and then maybe in a week or two, there’s nothing happening. You’re not getting the accolades that you’re used to and I feel like social media has a lot to blame on this because I feel we are programmed in a way… to chase these likes and these shares and all these accolades on social media that really have no weight to anything.”
19:23 “How do I get that, how do I chase that back? I feel like that’s been a huge issue. That happiness we get, a lot of it is being fueled by social media, and a lot of these new artists are wanting that notoriety on social media, but it’s such a shallow feeling.”
- the difficulty of gauging audience reaction
- being able to reach anyone but also competing against everyone
- not knowing why people like some things but not others
22:13 “This era, the time we live in now is a great time to be an artist or creative, and it’s also the worst time, because you’re fighting against every algorithm on social media that prevents you from reaching potential fans, or even your established fans.”
- 1,000 True Fans by Kevin Kelly
- growing your audience
- supporting your dream/career
- running Any Means Necessary clothing brand with just two people
- you will always talk to one of the owners
- dealing with each situation personally
- treat everyone like they are special
- turning bad situations into a positive
- breaking through the glass ceiling and not knowing what exactly to do
- trying to do everything yourselves vs. finding help
- find people who are super passionate about what you do
- lessons from C&H
- handling success at large scale
- going from fairly popular to super popular in short time
- went from 30k to 120k followers in two months
- hate emails also came in
- you’ve made it when you have haters
35:11 “There’s really no way to prepare for something to go wrong and you can’t always predict every outcome.”
35:50 “I’ve always lived by the whole fake it til you make it. Apparently I did it so well that my wife was confused. She thought I always had a very large ego and I said ‘I’m really just throwing out the biggest f*cking show I can because I’m so scared to death if anything happens. I’m not secure with myself. I’m very insecure about a lot of things, and my art’s a huge one. But no one wants to buy art from an insecure person. So you put on the show.”
36:42 “I think a lot of people think of fans as dollar signs, and since I’m still new, I see them as people and I relate to them as a fan first. So I try to make sure that when someone comes up, I don’t rush them off.”
- interacting with fans
- how to handle meeting people you look up to
- treating people the same
- his journey to clothing company
- was doing artwork on MySpace
- friend messaged to start clothing line
- make stuff they would wear
- went along with the idea
- sold out of shirts at art show
- stepped away for a bit
- company was self-sustaining
- released a book and it blew up
- made $60k from
- success of Inktober
- before then, they had $1
- allowed them to take a risk with apparel
- expanding inventory and looking into mental health advocacy
- research and treatment vs. medicine
- partnering with True Crime Garage podcast, Maddox, Suicide Girls
- breaking through to the next level and going all in
43:16 “People say money is not everything, but for a company, when you have more money, you’re able to take more risk.”
43:42 “Not every design you come up with is going to be successful, but if you don’t put new stuff out, you’re going to f*cking fail anyways.”
- Shoe Dog by Phil Knight
- taking loans while still in debt
- taking chances/risks
- limiting his time to certain projects
- making plans to guide you
- success of Inktober
- not knowing what will be successful
- the necessity to experiment
52:38 “It’s literally just getting a bunch of scratch off tickets. You don’t know which one is going to be the one. Mostly all of them are either f*cking no winners or a dollar. That’s your average likes. Then one day you hit that thousand dollar ticket, and it’s like ‘Oh sh*t.’ And you can either capitalize on that, like I feel like I’ve done or you just try to recreate it like someone else differently.”
- advice for artist who wants to make it as a business
- grow a thick skin
55:19 “Grow a thick f*cking skin. I think that’s a good one because there’s going to be a lot of down times, a lot of hardships you’re going to go through. I thought there were a lot more downs than there were ups initially and that weeds out a lot of people. And then giving yourself time to figure out ‘How long will I pursue this before I say, okay, this isn’t going to happen,” and I think being honest with yourself is one of the hardest things to do.”
56:10 “You just have to say ‘Do I really want to keep pursuing this to make it successful, or in reality, is this going to be successful? Maybe it’s not going to be successful, maybe it’s not going to.’ And maybe I’m wrong to say that as an artist who is successful, but again, not everyone is going to be successful. That’s the reality of it. Otherwise we’d all be rich. We’d all be doing it. and some people can do it, and some people can’t.”
57:06 “It’s not a popular thing because I don’t think a lot of artists like to discourage other artists, but it’s a hard thing. It’s a lot of work. I tell artists I work more doing this than I’ve ever worked any nine to five job. I’m working day in and day out… and it doesn’t bother me but it’s definitely not for the weak who want to draw a picture once every couple of weeks and sit on their laurels.”
57:42 “People think as an artist I draw a piece of art and I just get to hang out all day. I’m working so much all the time… There’s a lot of work involved… No, there’s a business in there too. I think that’s where you get that separation of people who get it and people who don’t. They see the fantasy of it and then you get people who actually understand that’s there’s actually hard work involved.”
- behind the scenes of success
- the process that people don’t see
- transparency behind the two person team of AMN
- being persistent and knowing when to give up
- people have different thresholds of when they give up
- future of AMN
- becoming a fashion line/brand
- different perspectives blending together
- favorite quote
- “Find what you love and let it kill you…” – Charles Bukowski
- not wanting to waste his life away at 9-5 job and not pursuing somethin
1:30:53 “I feel like as an artist, you’re slowly giving a part of you away every time you put stuff out, and so in a way, it’s slowly killing you.”
1:05:55 “I don’t know how much time I have. I might die after this podcast. So I try to create as much as I can and leave as I can left for people to see. But I just have so many ideas I want to get out and I try not to waste too much time doing just asinine things.”
- habits
- doesn’t have rituals for artwork
- wakes up at 8am, hits gym, goes to work
- recommendations
- creative people
- Alex Pardee – creative ways to run business
- Stephen King – wide variety of books
- definition of creativity
1:10:45 “I think it’s just the ability to create something, a world out of nothingness, but I guess that’s my own personal creativity. I like to think of artists as wizards, that we create something from nothing but we get to work in pajamas all day when we do it.”
- being more creative
1:11:30 “I think they should stop asking artists how to be creative. Stop trying to find this answer. There’s no single answer. With me, I try to be open to everything and just allow the world to inspire me. People think that because I draw dark stuff that I must listen to death metal or heavy metal all the time. I listen to hip hop. Music doesn’t really influence me at all really. It’s mostly just outside stuff. A lot of it is just me getting in my own head thinking about things… I think people just need to be more open, just being able to receive information everywhere and use it as potential creative fuel…. I think people pigeon hole their creativity a lot. I think they need to be more open.”
- challenge
- try and pave your own way and forge your own path
1:13:58 “Try and pave your own way. There’s so many different paths in this career. Don’t try and follow the footsteps of someone else. Learn from someone else but forge your own path.”
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